Hey there Legal Rebels! 👋 I'm excited to share with you the 32nd episode of the 2025 season of the LawDroid Manifesto podcast, where I will be continuing to interview key legal innovators to learn how they do what they do. I think you're going to enjoy this one!
If you want to understand how technology can dramatically transform legal services delivery and bridge the justice gap for vulnerable populations, you need to listen to this episode. John is at the forefront of legal aid innovation and brings a unique perspective combining deep legal services experience with cutting-edge technology solutions.
Transforming Legal Aid Through Strategic Technology Implementation
Join me as I interview John Greiner, founder and president of Just-Tech, whose three-decade journey in legal services has culminated in creating one of the most impactful technology consulting firms serving nonprofit legal aid organizations.
In this insightful podcast episode, John shares his remarkable path from growing up in Manhattan to becoming a philosophy and computer science student at University of Wisconsin, then transitioning into legal services work in Indiana and Illinois before landing as CIO at Legal Services NYC. He reveals how his 13 years at LSNYC laid the foundation for Just-Tech, which now serves as the outsourced IT department and strategic technology partner for legal aid organizations nationwide. John demonstrates how thoughtful technology implementation can multiply the impact of legal services while maintaining the crucial human connection that vulnerable clients need.
His stories and insights underscore the critical balance between innovation and risk management in serving low-income communities, including the cultural barriers that often impede technology adoption in legal services and the careful change management required to successfully implement new systems. This episode is essential viewing for anyone interested in how technology can democratize access to justice and create more efficient legal service delivery models.
The Skinny
John Greiner, founder and president of Just-Tech, brings over 30 years of experience bridging technology and legal services to expand access to justice. Growing up in Manhattan with parents who embodied entrepreneurship and resilience, John developed early interests in both computer programming and philosophy at University of Wisconsin. His career path led through legal services work in Indiana and Illinois before spending 13 transformative years as CIO at Legal Services NYC, the largest civil legal services provider in the U.S. This experience revealed the enormous potential for technology to multiply the impact of legal aid organizations while highlighting the complex cultural and operational challenges of implementing change in risk-averse environments serving vulnerable populations. Just-Tech emerged from this insight, providing specialized technology consulting, implementation, and management services that legal aid organizations typically cannot develop in-house. John's approach emphasizes careful change management, minimal risk to clients, and preserving the essential human connections that make legal services effective for people experiencing trauma and crisis.
Key Takeaways:
Computer science + philosophy background created ideal foundation for legal tech innovation
13 years as CIO at Legal Services NYC revealed both opportunities and implementation challenges
Just Tech serves as outsourced IT department for legal aid organizations nationwide
Legal system inefficiency creates need for tech but also barriers to adoption
Risk aversion in legal services stems from legitimate concern about harming vulnerable clients
Technology adoption often driven by staff pushing leadership from bottom up
Funders increasingly support and require technology investments from grantees
Change management more complex and expensive than the technology itself
Human connections remain essential, especially for clients experiencing trauma
Exercise, community, and "turning it off" crucial for managing intense justice work
Notable Quotes:
"Right now, I guess I'm still knee-deep in the work of Just-Tech. It's been a little bit over a decade since we started the firm. A lot of what we do has its roots in the work that many of us did in legal services before Just-Tech." - John Greiner (00:01:31-00:01:49)
"I think the most immediate origin of Just-Tech stems from my time at Legal Services NYC. I was brought in as the first CIO for the organization. It's the largest civil legal services provider in the U.S." - John Greiner (00:03:04-00:03:20)
"I certainly think the law needs to be, you know, before AI needs to be made a heck of a lot more efficient, right? That it's... And it starts certainly with the legislation. It starts with the rules, the court rules. We've got a very arcane system and we've got too many systems." - John Greiner (00:31:03-00:31:17)
"So I think it is now sort of this huge opportunity with AI. And I think there have been other opportunities like with, you know, call center technology, for instance, to dramatically improve our efficiency, improve our reach across language barriers and really multiply our impact." - John Greiner (00:32:13-00:32:35)
"I don't want to take the humans out of legal services. I think the value of that human contact, especially with the legal system as it is, between a legal professional and a client is so important, especially for folks who have been going through traumatic experiences in their life and they just need that human connection." - John Greiner (00:38:52-00:39:15)
"We want to be super confident that whatever we're doing is going to make things better. And I think that's a pretty tall order. And if you're going to innovate, it's kind of difficult to not sort of look at managing some of that risk, like taking some risks." - John Greiner (00:33:52-00:34:08)
"The struggle for justice is a long, long one. And that, you know, I'm not quoting him, Professor Jones, exactly as he said it. But, you know, the generation that comes before you hands it off to you and you know that... that rope or that chain and you're there to pull it forward or to reduce the backstepping." - John Greiner (00:43:27-00:43:56)
Clips
Staying Balanced and Connected Under Pressure
Why the Struggle for Justice is Worth It
How AI Could Radically Modernize Our Courts
A Mother’s Struggles and Formative Childhood
John's journey from a curious kid tinkering with early computers in Manhattan electronics shops to building one of the most impactful legal technology companies serving the justice community illustrates the power of combining technical skills with deep understanding of legal services. His philosophy background provided the critical thinking framework, while his early programming experience gave him the technical foundation to see possibilities others missed. Most importantly, his years in the trenches of legal services work gave him the credibility and insight needed to help organizations navigate the complex intersection of innovation and risk management when serving vulnerable populations.
Closing Thoughts
John Greiner's story represents the best of what's possible when someone combines technical expertise with genuine commitment to justice. His three decades in this space have given him a unique perspective on both the enormous potential of technology to expand access to justice and the very real challenges of implementing change in organizations serving vulnerable populations.
What strikes me most about John's approach is his recognition that technology is never just about the technology, it's about people, culture, and change management. His emphasis on preserving the human connections that make legal services effective while using technology to multiply impact shows a sophisticated understanding of how innovation should serve justice rather than replace it.
The work Just-Tech does is more critical than ever as we face potential cuts to Legal Services Corporation funding and increasing demands on an already overwhelmed legal aid system. Organizations like Just-Tech that can help legal services providers do more with less while maintaining quality and care for clients represent a crucial bridge to a more accessible and efficient justice system.
For our Legal Rebels community, John's story demonstrates that the most impactful legal technology innovations often come from those who deeply understand both the practice of law and the real-world constraints of the organizations they're trying to help. His journey from legal services attorney to technology innovator shows that you don't need to choose between justice and innovation—you can use one to amplify the other.
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